Curse

go cubs · Mar 18, 2009, 08:38 PM // 20:38

Ok...So idk how i can add a poll if i can so sorry

Anyway on to my opinion...
XTH is free Zkeys and im all for it. Pvp people, you complain that you are losing money because of this, tell me again, why do u need money if all you do is pvp??

I think that xth was brilliant for anet to boost revenue...
The question im dying to get answered is Will it remain??
Im assuming it will but i cant be sure i guess...

I think that xth is good and it should be kept...personally i do both pvp and pve

I do everything from HA to JQ in pvp and i am workin on Gwamm as well...(only at r1 lol but its comin) and i typically dont "farm" for money and it still comes in. Its not like revenue is what you expect when you do RA/JQ is it? at least not for me...maybe for some hardcore people it is but for me its all about the fun factor.

Pve is also about the fun factor but sometimes if u need cash you can do a bit of farming and it comes in...

The thing about XTH is that it boosts me every month and helps me get some armor/weaps and stuff like that and im workin my way on ztitle now so i will probly use every zkey i get...I think if people use the keys from XTH then its Great, I think if people sell them its Great....Keep it at least till gw2 then start from scratch and dont ruin economy in the first place xD

Jensy · Mar 18, 2009, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Why'd we need another thread about this? *sigh* Where's that image of a dude beating a dead horse when you need it? I personally get keys through XTH, and through 'pvp' lite (JQ/FA/AB). I'd get them via real pvp if I were able to, but it's not possible at the moment.

If the intent of anet was in part to get more people interested in pvp, it certainly worked in my case. I don't give one flying shit about my key result each month when it comes down to it; I'm up early on tournament day to just watch the matches. I follow pvp discussion and debate, I watch games all day long just to see what teams are doing. Good matches on obs are a perfect way to kick back and zone out everything else. I doubt I'd have this much interest otherwise, really, so I'm thankful for the chance to get into it.

I honestly can see where your coming from in regards to 'if you want them, pvp for them' but, yanno, it's not so easy to just go gvg for keys when the only pvp experience you've got is from killing smelly luxons, and playing in ~10 real gvg matches. Which isn't your fault, as pvpers, so don't think I'm laying blame here. It's just not quite as easy as all of that, though I wish it were

Even then, you're not getting anything unless you're at 1000 or above, which... hahahaha. Yeah, my guild was about 3K something or other when we played.

I wish I could believe that keeping it solely as a reward for pvp would get more people to pvp. All you'd likely get are more teams selling off guilds/selling invites into guilds that can earn TRP and syncing up/forfeiting in every AT. Go look, there's a thread in Ventari's about this very thing.

So, uh, what's the answer here? Beyond removing it completely?

Dr Strangelove · Mar 18, 2009, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

Anyway on to my opinion...
XTH is free Zkeys and im all for it. Pvp people, you complain that you are losing money because of this, tell me again, why do u need money if all you do is pvp??

1)Pretty much all of the high-end PvPers also play PvE. Anyone screaming about the evil junta oppressing good, honest PvE that PvP players can never understand is a gibbering idiot.

2)Most players PvP to some degree, even if it's just RA and the like. It's fairly easy to get into high-end PvP, albeit hard to win the MAT right away. Anyone complaining that PvP players have something unavailable to PvE players is a mongoloid mouth-breather.

3)Most hardcore PvPers couldn't give two Shiite's about how much money they're making per victory. They probably played for years before Zkeys were implemented, they'd play if they went away. They're a neat perk for doing something they'd do anyway, much like the PvP titles.

There is no great divide. There never has been. That's a myth touted by hardcore PvE farmers who would never willingly do a mission for fun, much less set foot in RA.

Yarly · Mar 18, 2009, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

Why'd we need another thread about this? *sigh* Where's that image of a dude beating a dead horse when you need it? I personally get keys through XTH, and through 'pvp' lite (JQ/FA/AB). I'd get them via real pvp if I were able to, but it's not possible at the moment.

If the intent of anet was in part to get more people interested in pvp, it certainly worked in my case. I don't give one flying shit about my key result each month when it comes down to it; I'm up early on tournament day to just watch the matches. I follow pvp discussion and debate, I watch games all day long just to see what teams are doing. Good matches on obs are a perfect way to kick back and zone out everything else. I doubt I'd have this much interest otherwise, really, so I'm thankful for the chance to get into it.

I honestly can see where your coming from in regards to 'if you want them, pvp for them' but, yanno, it's not so easy to just go gvg for keys when the only pvp experience you've got is from killing smelly luxons, and playing in ~10 real gvg matches. Which isn't your fault, as pvpers, so don't think I'm laying blame here. It's just not quite as easy as all of that, though I wish it were

Even then, you're not getting anything unless you're at 1000 or above, which... hahahaha. Yeah, my guild was about 3K something or other when we played.

I wish I could believe that keeping it solely as a reward for pvp would get more people to pvp. All you'd likely get are more teams selling off guilds/selling invites into guilds that can earn TRP and syncing up/forfeiting in every AT. Go look, there's a thread in Ventari's about this very thing.

So, uh, what's the answer here? Beyond removing it completely?

There we go!

Seriously i don't know how many times i say this but zkeys won't stay the same price forever. So taking faith in the knowledge that next month you will be able to afford "x amount" of armor sets just because you get free zkeys will slowly become less of a reality. Its the same as green weapons when SF came out, you can't flood the market with an item and expect the price to stay the same.

go cubs · Mar 18, 2009, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

3)Most hardcore PvPers couldn't give two Shiite's about how much money they're making per victory.

There is no great divide. There never has been.

I agree...so why is every pvp player sayin zkeys should b 5k ea.? Why do they care about money (most of the pvp players in here so far have said give me more money)

DragonRogue · Mar 18, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNovember

Holy shit DragonRogue, angry much?

read for intent much?

Quote:

Wait, what?
People will always sell as high as people are willing to buy. When the title came out more people were interested, so naturally the price went up. It wasn't some evil pvper conspiracy as you're implying.

not what i was saying at all. when the PVPers started selling the keys at a higher rate, this caused others to want to capitalize on the gain as well, hence people went out and bought more accounts.

Quote:

Stop derailing. All titles can be achieved through grind of some sort, but it's generally accepted that pvp titles are harder to get.
Shocking as you may find this; pvpers play pve also, or use pve characters to pvp with. This is an expensive business; it requires gold to kit out toons.

no one denies that its hard to make money to kit out toons. PVE knows this well. But you dont see PVErs putting up endless threads whining nonstop about how the prices of mods have come down in price, or that farming areas have been nerfed. We deal with it and move on to something else.

Quote:

...or sell zkeys. Even at 2k ea it's like 50k each month, even on 1 account. Plus you assume pvpers are don't know jack

Agreed on this. Then stop whining about the fact that this is not enough. And where did i ever say or lead you to assume PVPers dont know anything? The PVPers are complaining that they want the XTH removed so thier zkeys will go back up in price so they can have control over the Zkey market again and earn their money this way. What i am saying is that if they dont have enough gold to buy what they want, then go out and farm for it in PVE. The PVPers are telling the PVE that if they want Zkeys then we should learn to PVP.

Quote:

No-one's whining about the fall in zk prices. The thread is complaining about the abundance affecting "economy", which is more in reference to skin prices. And how is selling zkeys greedy?

The threads are littered with people complaining about the drop in Zkey prices which is effecting the economy. Where have you been? Constant references to the amount of zkeys causing the drop in prices of those keys. Selling Zkeys isnt greedy. Bitching endlessly that they arent worth what they used to be is greedy. No where that i have read are people mad at the drop in prices of various skins...its been all about the drop in prices of the keys themselves.

Yarly · Mar 18, 2009, 09:17 PM // 21:17

Discussions like this always seem to stray onto the pvp vs pve troll train. Oh well, thats gwguru.

Dr Strangelove · Mar 18, 2009, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by go cubs

I agree...so why is every pvp player sayin zkeys should b 5k ea.? Why do they care about money (most of the pvp players in here so far have said give me more money)

I scrolled through the entire thread and didn't find a single person saying that. I saw two people asking why PvE farmers feel entitled to zkeys (a valid question), a couple people saying that getting free money even if you make crappy predictions is stupid (also valid), and a bunch of PvE farmers complaining that it makes the plebs uppity.

Asplode · Mar 18, 2009, 09:48 PM // 21:48

First off I hold no delusions that my opinion isn't biased; my in-game money comes from Zkeys which lose value as XTH becomes more popular and people invest in multiple accounts. That is my situation.

That being said, I sympathize with the people that find that XTH distributes wealth more evenly, but there is the fact that the one-account-per-person userbase isn't the one that negatively impacts Zkeys. The price of Zkeys would naturally inflate as subsequent titles got more Zkey heavy, and XTH would normally keep this in balance anyway

However, your average player probably hasn't spent $100 in prophecies accounts as a long-term investment for greater ZKey rewards over time.

I believe this thread is a bit unfocused as the issue is more about the aforementioned scenario and not Joe Wammo who gets a free 100k monthly welfare check, which isn't a bad thing at all.

Lastly, it seems like a bit of a vain argument to go "Well the economy is pretty bad anyway, so screw it let's just throw it off a cliff".
Just because something is crippled, doesn't mean that you should just go and euthanize it without much further consideration.

But let's be realistic here: Regardless of whether this is a problem or not, this is a mechanic which, as an end-result, makes people buy Guild Wars. The motivations don't matter here. ANet probably won't take out XTH for that simple fact.

Firebaall · Mar 19, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

In my short time dabbling in the XTH....

1) I know who the movers and shakers are in PVP.

2) I have more accounts than I did before XTH.

Those are the two biggest goals that Anet are meeting with XTH.

Facts are, that PvP is a very small part of guildwars. In terms of playerbase. XTH promotes PvP exposure, by peaking the interest of it's larger customer base.

Facts are, Anet is selling multiple accounts because of XTH. This is serious motivation to keep it.

"Economics"? Not since Inscriptible weapons, and the Xunlai chest itself. The real economy is powered by title items now. Keep the house.

amber dawn · Mar 19, 2009, 12:21 AM // 00:21

just my 2 cents but it seems there is alot of pve dosen't deserve the zkeys (i could be wrong on that assumption.) but if so, then pvp shouldn't be able to sell them to pve.
I like the free money sure, and i will take it as long as they keep giving it. I do feel something needs to be done tho. But in the meantime I will take what I can get like everyone else here. It is fun reading the thread tho.

MMSDome · Mar 19, 2009, 12:54 AM // 00:54

Remove it entirely.

Clone · Mar 19, 2009, 01:55 AM // 01:55

Well, it serves its purpose as a deterrent to ebay gold sellers, which even if they'll never admit it, was likely their main goal. at the same rate, I don't exactly like the idea of people getting 10+ accounts just for a the income.

I think if you tried to change it, you'd get a lot of rage and unending flames, so its best left alone and just left out of GW2 (should that prove not to be vaporware).

your lucky i · Mar 19, 2009, 02:03 AM // 02:03

seriously if you whine that people abuse to get money in guildwars is pretty sad... i mean if you were a pver you would love the free money. but a person with multiple accounts will get more. yea who cares its not your problem

coil · Mar 19, 2009, 03:05 AM // 03:05

i'll be buying at least 1 extra account because of it (XTH) ( yes i get into things late ) .

Ec]-[oMaN · Mar 19, 2009, 05:37 AM // 05:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

1) I know who the movers and shakers are in PVP.

because the PvP playerbase is dead and pre XTH it would be a coin flip on which guilds place where.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

2) I have more accounts than I did before XTH.

Games dead, people are giving accounts away on a daily basis.

Don't see any real goals happening here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Firebaall

XTH promotes PvP exposure, by peaking the interest of it's larger customer base.

All it's doing is peaking exposure for the Guild Wars website. Can't tell me that even 5% of PvE player-base bothers to watch obs mode. Let alone par takes in any kind of PvP structured instance for the sole purpose of obtaining zkeys, why bother when you can input 16 names on a website once a month and come out with more than you would trying to gain balth faction/rps.

Amnel Ithtirsol · Mar 19, 2009, 05:57 AM // 05:57

Thread is going nowhere fast.
Can one of the admins/mods please start a poll?

I'm sure it will give some interesting results...

Wild Rituals · Mar 19, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

Remove it and people will QQ
Keep it and people will QQ
change it people will QQ
welcome to guru people are going to QQ

as long as there are at least 2 people
there are going to be 2 opinions on the matter.

makosi · Mar 19, 2009, 11:04 AM // 11:04

One can argue that it creates a relationship between real life wealth and in-game wealth. If you've got a few hundred quid in disposable income to spend on GW accounts then you can become wealthier in-game whereas those who don't have as much cash will become comparatively poorer.

This means that the 15 year-old school kid can't compete with Mr. Thirty-something who makes custom rigs for Dell for a living.

stanzhao · Mar 19, 2009, 01:03 PM // 13:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

One can argue that it creates a relationship between real life wealth and in-game wealth. If you've got a few hundred quid in disposable income to spend on GW accounts then you can become wealthier in-game whereas those who don't have as much cash will become comparatively poorer.

This means that the 15 year-old school kid can't compete with Mr. Thirty-something who makes custom rigs for Dell for a living.

i dont understand your point. people were rich before z-keys were introduced...